PHNO-HL: MIRIAM IS MIRIAM: A ROLLICKING INTERVIEW WITH STUDENTS & CAMPUS BULLETIN

MIRIAM IS MIRIAM: A ROLLICKING INTERVIEW WITH
STUDENTS & CAMPUS BULLETIN

[PHOTO
-My reactions sometimes are so unconventional, some people think
that I am being self-destructive because I go out of my way to make enemies or
to provoke people. But that's me, what can we do? Photo by
ANDREW PAMORADA]
MANILA, JUNE 1, 2012 (BULLETIN) It's easy to be cowed by the
presence of Senator Miriam Defensor-Santiago.
After all, the senator has displayed the full range of her incendiary
putdowns during the course of the impeachment trial of Chief Justice Renato
Corona, which included dressing down prosecution lawyer Vitaliano Aguirre for
covering his ears while the senator was speaking, and just this past week,
lecturing Harvey S. Keh, Kaya Natin! head convenor and Students and Campuses
Bulletin (SCB) contributor, on what a witness should be.
As such, it's hardly surprising that the SCB team went into this interview
with no small measure of trepidation and anxiety — even if it was already our
second time to talk with the feisty lawmaker. It was as if the warmth and humor
that she welcomed us with during our previous encounter had not happened at all;
the team was just trying not to insult her intelligence with our incompetence.

But just like the last time, Senator Miriam Defensor-Santiago was quick to
allay our fears, opening the conversation with a quip that had us all in
stitches and on our toes. From there, it was like shooting fish in a barrel for
the lady senator, who proceeded to reply with quotable quotes for every question
that the SCB team lobbed at her.
On the prosecution panel: "Let us just say I am not impressed."

[PHOTO -OUTGOING CHIEF JUSTICE: File photo shows Impeached Chief
Justice Renato Corona while attending a Mass at the Supreme Court compound
before going to the Senate. (Ali Vicoy)]
On the state of her health during the impeachment trial: "At one point I
think I had 200/90. And I really wanted to kill myself that way. Let me offer my
humble and miserable life to my people by suffering fatal high blood pressure.
In the impeachment court since I do not kill people there, I prefer to kill
myself."
On the critics who thought she was being unnecessarily abrasive with her
tirade against Atty. Aguirre: "I would not pay any attention to them. They are
lowest in the food chain. So why I would pay attention to people whose IQ is
equals of that of an amoeba? It's very easy to disregard."
On the impeachment trial itself: "Normally when I'm sitting there very
quietly and not saying a thing, there's a thought bubble in my head. I say, for
example, please strike me dead, please strike me dead."
On sitting as a judge for the International Criminal Court in the Hague: "The
intellectual environment in the Hague will be far superior to that at which I've
been exposed so far."
However, to leave an interview with Senator Santiago thinking that she's just
a collection of droll declarations and prickly proclamations would be a
disservice to the multifaceted grandmother, mother, and lawmaker that she is.
Underneath the wit and the vitriol is a curious mind and a patriotic heart, who
loves her countrymen even as she is frustrated and exasperated by them.
"I love my own country. I love the Filipinos with all their inadequacies. I
feel very strongly that I'm a Filipino and that's one reason why I decided to
accept the nomination to the ICC," she says.
In this rollicking 60 Minutes conversation, Senator Miriam Defensor-Santiago
manages to wax philosophical in between the barbs and the quips, in a style that
can only be described as uniquely her own. (Ronald S. Lim)

STUDENTS AND CAMPUSES: Just like the last time, this will be a
free-flowing conversation.
MIRIAM DEFENSOR-SANTIAGO: Yes, yes. I'm very tired of life. I want to kill
myself (laughs). But before that I will kill everybody (laughs).

SCB: Speaking of being tired of life, when we watch the impeachment trial,
it's very clear on your face that you're easily exasperated with the people...

MDS: That's right. The thing is that I was a very, very disciplined RTC
judge. I forced myself to study all my cases, and the law that's applied to it.
I read myself cross-eyed. When a judge, who has nothing but fair play in mind,
educates herself to the optimum point so that she can do justice, and then other
officers of the court like lawyers appear not to have read the law and not to
have interviewed the client sufficiently about the facts of the case, she will
be very, very exasperated. In my courtroom, that was not allowed.
If a lawyer kept on exhibiting breathlessly his incompetence, I charged him
with direct contempt of court. I would say, your ignorance insults me and send
him to jail immediately (laughs). I used to ask my sheriff, "Sheriff take him to
city jail so he could educate himself there and bring his books with him''
(laughs). I'm very frustrated because I could not do that anymore (laughs).
SCB: The impeachment trial is giving you a lot of stress lately, what with
your hypertension...
MDS: Yes, I never realized I was hypertensive until the impeachment
trial began. I have high blood pressure, maybe a moderate or tolerable kind, but
it was exacerbated by the beginning of the impeachment trial. That's when my
high blood pressure rose to unacceptable limits. Those are the words of the
physician.
At one point I think I had 200/90. And I really wanted to kill myself that
way. Let me offer my humble and miserable life to my people by suffering fatal
high blood pressure (laughs). In the impeachment court since I do not kill
people there, I prefer to kill myself.
SCB: The impeachment process has been frustrating for you, but have there
been highlights for you that compel you to go on?
MDS: Well, it's my job. But I'm frustrated because it's been five months! We
don't even see the end of the horizon because now the defense announces its star
witness. This throws us all in a dilemma because at the start of this session I
already delivered a little paper that said it is within the power of the
impeachment court to set a deadline for the impeachment trial. It was my way of
warning the parties that the Senate now feels that there is a confluence of
ideas here that we must finish before June 7. We only have one month left. But
now you have all these new witnesses and that upsets the apple cart.
SCB: Is it important that the Chief Justice appear in the impeachment
court?
MDS: It is very important because it's so much easier to find out the truth
if you are watching the person testifying, both under direct examination which
is friendly to him, and under cross-examination, which is done by a person
hostile to him.
LEARNING FROM THE TRIAL
SCB: Some people misinterpret your discipline in the court as being
abrasive…
MDS: I'm used to that kind of criticism. In UP, I always sat in the
front row and I always very dutifully took down notes that sprang from the lips
of my professor as if he were a god. I tended to hero worship my professors.
There were back row boys who just absolutely did not care and who ridiculed the
nerds like me who tried to commit to memory the lesson. They ridiculed us all
the time.
So I'm used to that kind of backbiting. I would consider that they are the
lowest form of life, I would not pay any attention to them. They are lowest in
the food chain. So why would I pay attention to people whose IQ is equals to
that of an amoeba, not only a regular amoeba but one-celled amoeba? It's very
easy to disregard (laughs).
SCB: What do you think is the best teaching moment for the public in the
impeachment trial?
MDS: I don't think they're showing any good side of the legal system in the
impeachment court. People might think this is how lawyers and judges conduct
cases in the impeachment court and they'll have a low opinion of the entire
system. I'm really worried about it.
For one, I think the House of Representatives is trying to economize on their
funds and they're accepting volunteer prosecutors. I can't believe these
prosecutors are being paid for all their errors! So I could only conclude that
probably these prosecutors are either free or very cheap.
In the defense panel, they have a good lead defense counsel because of his
experience and because of his being in the academe. Ex Justice (Serafin) Cuevas,
who used to be my professor in the UP College of Law and my fellow UP alumnus,
has both theory and practice at his command. So his panel, more or less, can be
disciplined by the sheer will of the lead defense counsel.
But I cannot say the same for the prosecution. Let us just say I am not
impressed. And I often ask myself when I'm watching there with beady eyes at
what the prosecution is doing, there's a thought bubble on top of my head, "Why
am I not impressed?'' (laughs).
SCB: Do you think the people trust the impeachment court?
MDS: I would say there's a level of distrust there, sufficient to overcome
the presumption of the performance of the official functions. Many say we don't
really care because it will be decided by politics. So I'm afraid that the
public's view of reality with respect to the impeachment trial makes them feel
cynical about the entire process.
SCB: Is that a good thing or a bad thing, that the public is cynical about
the impeachment trial?
MDS: Well, they are talking to the arch-cynic (laughs).
SCB: Your exclamations in the impeachment trial, are they planned?

MDS: (Laughs) They're always spontaneous because every time I go to
the Senate, I firmly resolve that I shall be very serious, authoritative,
kahanga-hanga, kagalang-galang. I always try to achieve that. I think I achieved
that as an RTC judge. But because the proceedings are quasi-political, as I say,
I always manage to disappoint myself. Whenever I'm there, I can't help it! I
lose my temper and I feel the need to discipline that person, either by outright
lecturing to him, or by being sarcastic about the whole proceedings. Most of
them know they deserved to be berated for their lack of preparation.
I'm very, very serious rendering justice to every person because I did that
for years. I became conversant with the many ways by which the truth is twisted
in the courtroom. I know the tricks the lawyers play, and that irritates me
because that presumes I don't understand what's going on. Basically that is the
root cause of my mental problems with the impeachment. Normally when I'm sitting
there very quietly and not saying a thing, there's a thought bubble in my head.
I say, for example, "Please strike me dead, please strike me dead.'' It never
happens (laughs).
SCB: Are you surprised that all these exclamations are going viral online?

MDS: I'm not surprised but of course I'm pleased that there are many people
who share my view. I assure that I am completely sober when I'm listening to
somebody (laughs).
SCB: (Laughs).
MDS: I love being serious, for example, in an academic environment. I love
listening to lectures in UP, and then in Michigan, and when I did my post
doctoral work. I could hardly breathe because I wanted to catch every single
word from the professor from Oxford or Cambridge and Harvard. But in this case,
I don't feel that I'm learning anything. I feel that there is a lot that needs
to be beaten into the brains of the officers of the impeachment court. And so
because I'm filled with, let's just say, intellectual violence, I'm very
frustrated because I cannot do anything about it (laughs).
INTERNATIONAL JUDGE
SCB: You can't wait to go to the International Criminal Court (ICC)?


[PHOTO -When the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) nominated Senator
Miriam Defensor-Santiago as the country's candidate for judge of the Hague-based
International Criminal Court]
MDS: (Laughs) No, not really. In International Criminal Court, I will have a
completely different environment. Right now, I'm in the middle of the public
square, a place that constitutes a public forum where anybody can say anything.
For me, the impeachment court is like a market place. Anyone can have their say,
whether it is sensible or not. Sometimes I'm just amazed with the infinite
capacity of some people to exhibit the lowest possible IQ consistently for one
whole week. It is so amazing (laughs).
In the Hague, I will be with the best and the brightest in the entire world
because that is the requirement. And then I'll be among the youngest. I expect
that pretty soon I shall be very old there. So that is one more risk I would
have to take. Die on the job (laughs). And I'm going to make sure that I update
my will (laughs). I expect to return in a horizontal position (laughs).
SCB: How were you chosen to be a judge in the ICC?
MDS: You just don't go and apply. You have to be officially nominated by your
head of state. President Aquino very kindly nominated me. I had to go around the
world and talk to groups of people, maybe to exhibit my knowledge of
international law because these are always followed by forums. After that then
we all went to New York last December for the assembly of all the state parties
of the ICC. The elections were held and I'm very happy to tell you that I was
no. 1 in the elections. I won this time!
SCB: Will you be as unforgiving a judge in the ICC?
MDS: Definitely, but I will have more understanding among my general public
because they will have full background, sometimes even knowledge, of the
principles of international law involved. It's very hard to be judged by people
who have no functioning literacy with respect to the subject matter (laughs).
That's why sometimes, instead of answering the question directly, I will take
refuge in a witticism or in a silly answer or in a laughable answer because
sometimes you just think it does not deserve to be replied to. The amount of
intellectual energy it would take to reply to the question and point out all the
deficiencies in the question will not be worth it.
SCB: Why did you accept the nomination?
MDS: I love my own country. I love the Filipinos with all their...let's just
say… inadequacies (laughs). I feel very strongly that I'm a Filipino and that's
one reason why I decided to accept the nomination to the ICC. I wanted to bring
honor to our country. I wanted the Philippines to be the first developing
country in Asia to have a representative there.
I've worked abroad before as a legal officer of the UNHCR, the UN High
Commission for Refugees in Geneva, so I'm used already to that kind of a life.
I've studied in different countries in Europe. But I've always never lost my
love of country, which is really imponderable when you think about it. There are
so many advantages abroad, one of them being the freedom from malice (laughs),
while here I'm made fodder for the malicious.
POP CULTURE AND PICK-UP LINES
SCB: How do you remain relevant and in touch with pop culture? A lot of
politicians shell out lots of money just to be seen as in touch with young
people, and you seem to do it effortlessly.
MDS: It's subconscious. I think it's because I'm used to making cracks in my
head all the time. I joke about things, sometimes it's unspeakable so I will not
say it in public (laughs). But when my two sons were still living with me, we
used to do this kind of thing everyday at dinner. They were brought up in this
kind of environment — making cracks, making jokes of situations. I just refuse
to be mute in the face of absurdity. Sometimes, I will celebrate the absurd
because it's so much fun when life is random, right?
Life is absurd, because you don't have any clue what we are here for. I'm
talking about the meaning of life. There's no meaning to it! Look for the
meaning, you can never find it. If that's the case, we have to invent our own
meaning. That is what we are reduced to. We have to invent why we get up every
morning. You get up, cross the street, and get run over by a bus. Isn't that
absurd? You're in a big hurry to get your clothes on so the bus can run over you
(laughs)? I don't have that kind of attitude about possessions. That's why it's
easier for me to fight graft or turn down a bribe or to behave myself so that
people realize that I cannot be bribed and that I may even start blabbing all
about it. It's because of all these facts I've discovered from middle age.
SCB: Do you keep abreast of pop culture? Your comment on Justin Beiber
being one of those phenomena that makes you wonder whether there is a God in the
universe quickly became viral.
MDS: Not necessarily just pop culture. I keep abreast of everything. I read
law journals, philosophy journals, I'm just very aware of my world. Let's just
say that I'm very, very curious about the world and very non-judgmental.
SCB: Speaking of campuses, do you have a favorite pick-up line since it
was something you became really popular for?
MDS: (Laughs) Well, I recently told my sister, who is a doctor and is married
with children, that if you go to a singles' bar and someone would try to pick
you up, he will inevitably ask, what do you do for a living? Just give him a
reply, "I'm a female impersonator." (Laughs)
PUSHING THE RH BILL
SCB: Do you feel the RH Bill has a chance in passing in this Congress?

MDS: Definitely not before impeachment is finished. We're going to try and
fight voting on the bill before July 7, before we go on our long break, but I'm
pessimistic. Let me just say that there will be a vote on the RH Bill before the
year ends. Besides, the surveys show that majority of the Filipinos are in favor
of RH, about 78 to 80 percent.
SCB: Do you feel the biggest stumbling block in passing the RH Bill is
religion or misogyny?
MDS: It's really the Catholic Church. I cannot understand the position of the
Philippine Catholic Church because Italy, which is the seat of the Vatican, has
an RH Bill. Most of the Catholic developing countries in Asia and Latin America
already have RH Bills. Of the 48 Catholic countries that were surveyed, only six
did not have RH Bill. The Philippines is one of the laggards in that respect.

I'm afraid that the Catholic Church is harking back to its absolute power
over the mind before Vatican II. We have to follow what the bishop or the priest
say, that was before.
And then in Vatican II, all of the bishops of the world concurred now that
they are not as supreme as they think. They have absconded themselves from it.
They are now aware that the Church is not the clerics, is not the pope, not the
bishops. The Church is the people of God. So under this new principle of Vatican
II, the Church can make mistakes, priests can make mistakes. They are not a
special select group of extraordinary individuals with supernatural powers.
They're just human just like you and me. Therefore they must follow the primacy
of conscience.
If the person wants to observe birth control or contraception and his
conscience tells him so, why does the Church oppose that just because there is a
saying in the Bible to "Go forth and multiply." But if we are going by the words
of the Bible then very easily, there's another section we can point to, Jesus
said, "Let them be one flesh." So that means, therefore Jesus approves of sex
and it is not related to progeny or reproduction.
So that is all that we are saying. The RH Bill does not make contraception
mandatory. It doesn't say every couple must observe. It just says, in every
public hospital, people who want to be taught, will be taught contraception, and
certain types of contraception should be included in the list of drugs that the
hospitals are required to store in its premises. Just the overpowering statistic
that everyday at least 11 women die because of complications in pregnancy and
child birth.
SCB: How do you think the voting will go in the Senate?
MDS: I don't know how the voting will go in the senate but we're trying to
enlist the campuses to show to senators and congressmen that the youth will
stand for it and we are now a predominantly young country. The youth will now
determine not only the fate of the RH Bill but also the fate of those who voted
for it in the 2013 and 2016 elections.
SCB: Since Mother's Day just came up, what do you admire most about your
mother?

[PHOTO- Miriam goes gaga over first 'apo']
MDS: Well, until now, she's a very, very strict mother. So we all had a sense
of inferiority because of her. My siblings mostly graduated with honors or some
distinction because we are all disciplined because of her. Until now I am afraid
of my mother (laughs). I'm not afraid of syndicates and criminals but I'm afraid
of my mother (laughs).
I admire her sense of mental discipline. She was a Math whiz when I was
young. When the calculators first arrived, we tested her and she was faster
really than a calculator, amazing! She comes with a price, her expectations are
too high. We all feel in our family that we are a disappointment to our mother.
We haven't learned how to fly (laughs) or memorize algorithms things like those.
She taught us a lesson that nothing comes for free. You have to have superior
genetics, you have to have superior environment as well, meaning to say, you get
whiplashed all the time. I was highest in Math 101, the most difficult
undergraduate subject in UP, and my numerical score was 70. So I ran all the way
home to show her, mom, this is the highest in Math 101. She said, "70?" She did
not pay attention to the highest and she did not speak to me again for a whole
month (laughs).
SCB: Are your sons afraid of you?
MDS: No. I'm a lenient spouse, my husband is the very strict spouse. I would
sort of undermine my husband's authority, which is very bad for a wife to do.
But I did not want to have confrontations so I backchannel (laughs). I would
tell my children, "Don't mind that fatuous old man. it's enough to pass your
courses.'' Well of course, if you flunk your subjects, then I will really be
outraged, but if you pass your subjects there's no point to be the best or
number one in class because it doesn't count for anything. The best in what? You
write it in symbols on pieces of paper? Life is just a piece of paper floating
in the river. Like what a philosopher said, you throw that piece of paper, it
floats there for a while then it sinks forever. Don't worry about it.
I'm basically very simple but I like to discuss intellectual concepts. For
example, the basic philosophical question, why is there something instead of
nothing? I love that question. One time we had dinner with my two boys, I always
like a sparkling conversation at the dinner table. They are always waiting for
the opening line, opening question. So I started by asking, "Why is there
something instead of nothing?" The two of them just automatically stood up and
left (laughs). They just walked out (laughs).



Chief News Editor: Sol
Jose Vanzi

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NEWS ONLINE
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